Scott Billows (00:02.018)
Hey Matt, here we are. Episode eight of Bellmar Bites. We're just laying down tracks and have an interesting conversation. So excited to be doing this one. This one is coming out August 7th, 2025 and excited to jump into another business conversation about Salesforce and technology.

public sector, nonprofit, there's a whole bunch of topics that we cover on this pod. And today we are talking about how to achieve maximum value for your Salesforce investment. So there's a bunch of different ways that we can go on this one, but how's your week been? How are things going?

Matt Hui (00:55.533)
has been good and Scott I appreciate that our backgrounds are always different on all of our... we're episode nine now, episode eight now and it just gets better and better so I'm excited for this topic because inside me there's just this urge to always get the best value or best deal and this is gonna be an exciting episode maybe before we dive into it do you want to just I want to make sure we're

We have the same working definition here. When you think of value, what do you think of? What comes to mind when you think, yeah, I've gotten good value out of something? So we kind of lay that foundation.

Scott Billows (01:36.683)
Yeah, sure. Well, that's a good question. I would define value as measuring what I was expecting against what I accomplished or what I achieved. so in a Salesforce context, I had a particular objective that I was trying to overcome or solve within my business. And I looked at Salesforce as a technology company, and I looked at an organization like Bellmar.

to help me achieve success and I was, you know, I either was able to do that or I wasn't. And so we're hoping that in all cases, customers do get value from that investment. But I guess to me, that's how I would define value. How about yourself?

Matt Hui (02:25.563)
Yeah, I love that definition, just the comparison of what you were expecting to get and what you actually get there. But I think it's a sense of have you accomplished what you were hoping to accomplish coming out of this. So when I think of value in a technology perspective, value in a, I don't know, even like clothing perspective, have I got what I was hoping to get out of this? If my shirt falls apart after three washes and I've paid, I don't know, 500 bucks for this shirt.

not saying that I buy five or noller shirts, I mean, I would feel that that value, it's almost like a contract of, did I get what I was expecting to get? I did not get it out of that shirt if it's falling apart after three washes or whatnot. that's, again, it's very intrinsic, this, I feel strongly about just like, how do we get maximum value? And that's why I'm excited for our conversation today because I get this question a lot, and I'm sure you get this a lot, of how do you,

What can you do to prep or how can you maximize? Let's say you've made the decision as an organization to roll out this technology implementation that is working for you and solving the needs, but how do you get more? How do you get 10 % more? How do you get 20 % more? That really excites me. So maybe we jump off that point there, Scott, and maybe talk about everybody's favorite topic, procurement cycles.

And what to think about when right at the forefront of this, when you're purchasing Salesforce, when you're buying Salesforce, what are some things to consider with value in mind?

Scott Billows (04:05.82)
Yeah, great starting point.

I'll put myself in the shoes of an organization that's trying to make that decision. What are things that they should be thinking about? they're exploring a new solution because they're, we'll say their current technology or their current processes are inhibiting them. so the starting point to me really is identifying what is it you're trying to solve.

Like what is the problem that you're trying to solve? Because if you go back to the question that you asked Matt around value, if you can't define clearly and then quantify the value you achieved, you may achieve it, you may not, but you can't really measure if you don't have a really clear quantifiable measurement as to what are we expecting?

you know, define what are you trying to solve? Like that's the first thing. Beyond that, you know, the way I help customers think about this is, you know, what is the cost of the problem that you're trying to solve? So, let me repeat that. What's the cost of the problem you're trying to solve? Not what is the cost to implement the solution? What is the cost to get to where I want to get to? But what is the cost of the problem you're trying to solve? And if that is a...

$50,000 problem, if that's a $500,000 problem, it's a $5 million problem, then the measure you use to go and solve that has got to be somewhat aligned to the cost of the problem you're trying to solve. So I'll use an example. We have customers that are evaluating sales for the first time and we're in a conversation with them.

Scott Billows (06:04.215)
and one of the things that we do as, a, as a consultant, as a partner is we ask a lot of questions and we're trying to understand, what is their current state? What are they doing today that would need to map over to Salesforce in the future? what are the nice to have? So what are the things that, you know, maybe they're not doing or unable to do today that they would like to be able to do. And then let's, know, like way out there, what, what are the, like, if you could wave a magic wand and,

there was unlimited budget and unlimited time. What would you like to be able to do? And when we get into those conversations, a lot of ideas pop up and customers get excited. But then we need to kind of go back to this value to define, OK, how big is the problem you're trying to solve? What is the cost of the problem that you're trying to solve? And this helps them establish, in many cases, budget or it sort of brings

reality into focus in terms of what they can go and accomplish with a Salesforce investment. So those are, guess, a couple of things that I would encourage people to think about is, what are you trying to solve? What's the cost of the problem you're trying to solve? And then from there, there's other steps that you can take. And I'd love to get your thoughts, If somebody's sort of identified, OK, I now know what

problem is I know sort of what that cost is. What are some steps they can take to move forward?

Matt Hui (07:37.743)
Yeah, I love this, you'd ask the question, what's the cost of the problem? I love that as a framework because a $5,000 problem, trying to solve a $5,000 problem with a $5 million solution, mean, your value contract is gonna be broken by the end of this. So I think that's such a critical question that you've asked and I've heard you ask it many times, Scott, and oftentimes you said it brings in reality.

I think absolutely, reality bubbles up to the top of what do we want and what's realistic as well. And sometimes the wants and the reality can be mirrored up and matched up, but many times there could be other constraints like budget, timing, the reality is implementations. And when you're moving, it takes time. It's not a turn it on and it's all ready to go. It's time investment, both from a collaboration standpoint, from a training perspective.

from a providing feedback perspective. So I guess when you're thinking about when you're about to move, you've built out the plan, you've talked about all of these different elements, one piece that I'll just riff off of here is let's say you as an organization have established we need to move. The solution is Salesforce. Either you're not on Salesforce or you're on something, you're upgrading. Let's say that you've already established that and that question's already been answered.

But something that I think would be useful to throw in a couple points here is what if your leadership team or your organizational team doesn't quite see eye to eye with the board? And in a non-profit scenario, that can sometimes be the case in which the board maybe doesn't want to spend X amount of dollars or they've got other priorities. How do you bolster your use case? How do you bolster your business case for this and why should we move?

because that's oftentimes many of the checkpoints as well. So I think a couple things very similar to what we've shared in past episodes is you need to first understand what's in it for your organization and what's in it for the board. Is there, and being able to solve that in their language of is there increased ability to report on impact? Is there ability to increase something by some percentage point, if it's donations, that will this help us future proof? Being able to frame

Matt Hui (10:00.121)
that in the lens of those who are helping to lead the organization and maybe have a different viewpoint of this is what five years, 10 years from now looks like versus this is the pains that you have today. Being able to share it in their language, I think is very, very key. And I think Salesforce does a fabulous job at sharing industry reports. They've got all of the kind of public accreditations for this is the data. This is, it's not just a, this is a new shiny new tool.

There is impact metrics, they're able to increase adoption, they're able to increase donations, they're able to increase the amount of monthly donors. There's just so much data that, I mean, a partner like us can help you sift through some of that data to help make that decision and bolster that business case, if you will. But I think those three parts would be pretty key to bolstering the board business case. And I wanted to throw that in there because that sometimes can be

a hurdle, but it doesn't have to be a hurdle. It can oftentimes be in conjunction and partnership with the leadership team and the board, working really closely together to ultimately turn and transform an organization.

Scott Billows (11:12.425)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, I mean, what you've just shared, I think that applies to organizations that are looking to make that first step into Salesforce. But I think it also applies and we've spoken about this on previous podcasts is, know, I'm on an older Salesforce product. They've come up with newer ones. You know, I'm trying to determine

sort of the value of moving from old to new. I think it's the same framework. It's defining sort of what are you trying to solve? What's the pain that you've got today that you can't overcome? Or maybe you can, but the investment to do it is sort of equal to what it might cost to move in the direction of a new product.

Yeah, there's a lot of considerations there. I think it's probably worth noting here, these are things that we do every day, all day with our customers. I guess I'll sort of just to introduce a little bit about what we do as an organization. I mean, we provide technical expertise, knowledge. We've been there, we've done that hundreds and hundreds of times.

And so we've got that experience, that's our implementation team. That's our team that is, once you've made a decision to purchase, that's when they get involved and they will execute on a project. But before that, we have an incredible team of people that can help you navigate and make decisions. In many cases, it'll cost you nothing for that.

It's a conversation, it's some, I guess, coaching, providing you with insight into how you can move in a positive direction forward. And then there's other advisory services that our team can provide where we would actually get involved and establish a technology roadmap or helping to prepare executive briefings that can be shared with the leadership team and or the board.

Scott Billows (13:38.43)
helping organizations through budgeting. You know, in most cases, the types of projects that we do, customers don't have an idea on a Monday, have a conversation with us on a Wednesday and, you know, make a decision on Friday. I mean, these are usually very, very well thought out, longer buying processes because they're

they're making a significant investment in their future and what, I guess, what all of the stakeholders involved are expecting in terms of value. certainly, if you have questions about that, we would love to talk more about that. we can, you you can find us through our website and we can have a conversation. But Matt, a ideas that

Matt Hui (14:16.901)
Yeah.

Scott Billows (14:33.575)
think would be helpful to think about is, and just unpack a little bit more is sort of some lessons that we've learned from co-selling, I guess I'll call it with Salesforce for the last 15 years. And maybe before I get you to comment on that, I'll just sort of frame this. So when customers are buying Salesforce, what does that actually mean?

they're purchasing software licenses from Salesforce, but they're also in a lot of cases purchasing consulting or implementation services from an organization like Belmar. So in terms of this idea of co-selling, we are often very involved in a conversation that a customer will be having with Salesforce because Salesforce wants to get us introduced so we can begin building a relationship

customer, understanding what their needs are, and supporting each other in this decision process. I know you've been part of the sales cycle. You've been, as a former consultant, you've been very involved deep in the trenches with customers, helping them to think about what this investment

is going to look like the types of licenses they should be buying. So maybe first question is, if somebody needs to be buying licenses, how should they be thinking about that? How should they think about what the right licenses are that they should buy?

Matt Hui (16:16.709)
Yeah, I'll maybe start with what good looks like as well. And I think you alluded to this earlier in our conversation. It can be quite confusing and a lot to sift through when trying to make that decision. And the reality is a good partner should help you and run alongside you to helping you choose the right licenses, work with Salesforce, maximize value, all of these different pieces. A good partner should be running alongside you, sharing with you.

When should you be urgent? When should you not be urgent? When should you be considering this? So I will just say that because I've seen a lot of clients end up either buying something or forgoing a solution because they weren't afforded the time and the space to be able to make that good decision. And next thing you know, fast forward two years, there's something they've been, didn't even know that they were sold. They didn't even know that they had this license and they just have no utility out of it.

And then that's when we talk about the value, that value contract is broken. They've not gotten anything out of that. So I think that's the first thing I wanted to just share is a good partner runs alongside you and is helping you kind of sift away navigating. I kind of think of it like if you're in a mosh pit at a concert and there's just throngs and throngs of people, they are holding your hand and helping clear out the path for you. And I think that is so true because when you're co-selling or when you're selling with Salesforce, when you're buying licenses,

These product names, this is probably the first time you've heard of some of these product names. And the reality is these product names, they change names over the years. So just the industry knowledge and that historical expertise, knowing what works and what doesn't work, which product mixes and combinations could work. Well, mean, using a partner like us and having somebody who's done this time and time again can help you simplify what can be a very daunting process. So that's number one.

is a good partner runs alongside you and is helping you lead and guide you through that process as well. I think a practical tip, because this episode is all about value, a practical tip, when you're considering, well, who should have access to this functionality, how many licenses should I have as well? It's important to think about what one year from now looks like, three years, five years. Some future in mind is, are we gonna grow?

Matt Hui (18:40.825)
are we gonna be able to accommodate that because when you are buying, and especially buying in bulk, you're oftentimes able to maximize value either through some type of bulk discount or whatnot, and oftentimes there's a little bit more leeway when you have that future framing in mind as well. So that's important to note, but I think a second to that, if you're thinking about functionality, understanding that different people only need different access to different things.

If you can pull some of that work upfront and think, okay, my HR team needs access to X functionality, my service team needs this functionality, my development team and my donation management team needs access to this functionality. It helps you start to frame what types of things and licenses may I be needing and sharing that information with, again, a partner or with Salesforce to help guide you through that process.

is very key because oftentimes it's a series of conversations and if you don't share that, sometimes you may not get exactly what you're looking for. So I think that's a very practical piece of advice is understanding who does what, who should need access to what to help you map out what that kind of breakdown looks like.

Scott Billows (19:57.403)
Yeah, yeah. A couple of things just to add is, I think you said it well, know, customers who are looking at Salesforce, they're hearing about a product name, you that name may have changed, maybe likely changed over the years.

as Salesforce have adapted or enhanced that product. Just a product name is, it's kind of tough to really understand exactly what you're getting within that type of license. so, I do want to just offer up that working with Salesforce through this process, they know their products the best and their account executives and their sales engineers and their

sales leadership are very, very committed to customer success. I that is their foundation is customer success. And so they are there to help support those conversations. But as you shared, Matt, having a partner in that discussion, we're another set of ears. We bring a little different perspective and we can help translate what Salesforce is saying.

You know, we work very, very closely. we say this to, or I say this, and I think maybe you've said this to customers in the past, is we can't deliver any service to you unless you have Salesforce licenses, you when it comes to an implementation. So we work extremely closely with our team at Salesforce and the account executives and leadership to ensure that customers are getting the right licenses.

There are cases where a customer ends up with a set of licenses that maybe they're no longer the right fit due to changes in the organization. Or in some cases, we've seen a decision was made in the past about purchasing licenses, and the individual within that organization that made that decision is no longer there. And so a customer is left with licenses that they're not totally clear on what

Scott Billows (22:19.021)
what the value is of those licenses and if those are in fact the right licenses. So this is another, I guess, area where we get involved often is a customer will reach out to us and they'll have questions. They'll say, hey, I'm wanting to accomplish X and we will dig into the licenses that they have to determine, you know, is that something that we can accomplish? And in the case where we're not able to accomplish what they're trying to

achieve, then we will inform them that this particular license type is not going to enable us to address this particular objective. Here's some options that you've got. in some cases, is go to Salesforce and explore these licenses that they have, these newer products that they have. In other cases, it's

you know, going to the Salesforce app exchange and exploring options that exist there, you know, and I guess for context, the app exchanges is an app marketplace where you can buy, you know, in some cases get for free tools that will plug in and augment what Salesforce does out of box. And, and so we'll provide customers with recommendations. So if you find yourself in that scenario where you are trying to figure out

Do I have the right licenses to address the pain point that I have? That's an easy conversation to have and we can help you navigate through that and also get you connected to the right people at Salesforce who will assist and show you, I guess, some of the benefits that exist with the licenses that you have and or the licenses that you may be considering. Did you wanna add anything to that?

Matt Hui (24:12.091)
Yeah.

Matt Hui (24:15.641)
Yeah, last two cents into your Scott. I think we've talked about the Salesforce perspective. What happens if you have Salesforce? I think another, when we think about how do we go on the offense here, I love the idea of consolidation, technology stack consolidation. So something that can be very helpful is socializing this with your partner, socializing this with Salesforce on maybe you're solving a specific problem with some other piece of technology that is just floating in the ether right now.

It's a rogue piece of technology that's solving this. Bring that up, share that with your partner, share that with Salesforce so that they can share with you, do we have something that can solve that? Because once you get everything centralized on one platform, efficiency is gained. You're able to consolidate where you're receiving your invoices from and there's a lot of cost efficiency as well when you're able to do that. But being able to identify what are these different pieces, I love the idea of tech consolidation.

And also just the simplification of one kind of centralized data hub that everything can kind of plug into versus having something over here and having a swivel chair over to another technology solution. So share that. That's my advice. If you have something that you don't know if it fits in or don't know if it can be solved, bring that up because you never know that may be solved. unless that's shared, you're not able to at least evaluate, can we drive some cost efficiency and increase value?

because that's what this all is about. How do we maximize value here? So that was my parting thoughts with that one, Scott.

Scott Billows (25:52.165)
Awesome, awesome. Well, listen, with that, I guess the pearl of wisdom that I heard is share as much information as possible with Salesforce, with the partner that you're working with, because the more context they have,

the more they can help you shape what the future is going to look like in terms of your technology roadmap and the investment and value you're going to get from Salesforce. with that, Matt, I think we'll wrap. Thanks for doing this and looking forward to doing this again soon.

Matt Hui (26:27.887)
Right on. Take care, Scott.